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Re: Prophetic Aymaras, to Laura Jones

Dear Laura,
My name is Denise Covarrubias, and I too am in Aymaralist. I lived in Bolivia and work with and for the Aymara and their culture. I found your letter extememly interesting. You know, the best way to keep control over someone is to keep them in the dark about things...imagine all the information that has been censored and suppressed in the name of power and control!
I recently saw a Discovery Channel program about looking for lost Atlantis. The theory is that Atlantis could be in South America, if not in Bolivia itself. Anyway Thor Hyerdahl was interviewed and he said that he felt that perhaps the Andeans had visited the Egyptians first, and not the other way around.
I like that. I have never been comfortable with the idea that the Indigenous people of Central and South America were "taught" their civilization by "white" people from across the oceans, as if they could never have conceived of it themselves because they were always seen in the eyes of Europeans as being primitive and incapable of any great advances. It has even been said that great places such as Tiwanaku had been built by "red haired white men who were very tall" because the steps to the Akapana are very high; and then, if it wasn't red haired white guys, then the extraterrestrials had to have built it because there was no way that the Indians could have access to such tecnological advances that would move the large stones or fit them together with such perfection. Thor Hyerdahl even goes on to say that perhaps the Andeans taught the Egyptians how to build pyramids!!!!!!!!
I think these are very interesting times in which to live because of the fact that these things are coming to light, and there is less and less power to supress them. I have recently read the book "The Isaiah Effect" by Greg Braden. Part of the book deals with supressed documents from Biblical times. It is a very interesting book. Do you recommend any other books?
Sincerely, Denise Covarrubias :)

From: "Laura Jones" <lmjones@ptd.net>
Reply-To: aymaralist@aymara.org
To: <aymaralist@aymara.org>
Subject: Re: [aymara] Prophetic Aymaras
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 17:08:44 -0500

Hi this is the voice of Laura Jones. I would suggest you take a look at a
book "Heaven's Mirror: Quest for the Lost Civilization" by Graham Hancock.
He has some tremendously interesting stuff - I gave my copy of the book away
but have just re-ordered from Amazon and will let you know anything I find
of interest. You might reflect on the fact that the name "Jesus" is not a
proper name like Alex or Laura, but means "Savior". I think there is no
people on earth who do not have a tradition of a Savior being sent to them.
Also of a flood, etc. These things have been suppressed most especially in
this hemisphere because the whole place was colonized. However, I read in a
Russian magazine an open letter to Pope John Paul II concerning the
tradition that in the 18 years not covered in our Gospel, Jesus traveled
with the trade caravans over the Silk Route and I guess whatever other trade
routes to visit the countries from which the Magi came, to thank them for
saving him from Herod as an infant, and to teach them. This was in an open
letter to the Pope because the writer was asking him why documents
concerning this were still being suppressed by the Vatican. I sent the
article to the Pope who is in my chat group. I found it very interesting.
A lot of stuff gets suppressed because of the cultural imperialism of the
dominant culture which of course at present is far and away the US. But the
things are less suppressed in the world of Christian Orthodoxy. A Romanian
friend of mine told me he read that the teaching on reincarnation was
suppressed by the Vatican. I researched it and it turns out that it was
condemned by a Church Council. It's not worth my while to track the matter
down, but I would be interested to see the document condemning this, because
what in the west is represented as reincarnation is nothing like what the
Indians (in India) and others who believe in reincarnation actually believe.
In Orthodoxy also there is this belief, and again it has nothing in common
with how it is represented in the west. My guess is that the Council
document mis-stated the teaching and condemned this mis-statement. St.
Thomas Aquinas was condemned on this basis. As for the Aymara and other
aboriginal native Americans, I really am not convinced that they weren't
here all along - to begin with. Maybe some people came across the Bering
Isthmus or sailed here, but why do they maintain there were no people here
already? One of Graham Hancock's theses, stated in another book, "In the
Footprints of the Gods" I think it is, is that the Americans who constructed
those huge and remarkably skillfully built walls, etc., in the Andean area,
I'm not sure just where, were the "giants" mentioned in Gen.6:4 "These were
the mighty men, the men of old." Other Bibles translate "giants" rather
than "mighty men". In Genesis 6 they are called Nephilim. And the Nephilim
are mentioned variously as an ancient people, large and strong, who built
megalithic monuments. What I think from my reading in books like those of
Hancock, which have come out recently and challenged some "conventional
wisdom" is that 1) there was a lot more moving around than the archeologists
are willing to admit, I mean look at Thor Heyerdahl's Kontiki. The
archeologists say that doesn't prove whatever people it was sailed wherever
on such and such a date (I'm terrible for such details) which is certainly
true but I think it shows the archeologists that the people knew how to
strike out and travel. 2) Almost daily they are now pushing back the
allowable date for the earliest civilizations. So it is at least within the
realm of possibility that Aymara are not "late arrivals" at all. I would
love to see some of those stories from the Oldest Ayamaristas who could
relate very curious stories or legends with great detail and resemblance to
those in the Book of Mormon that had been passed down verbally generation to
generation. Because what I am finding is that these common traditions are
to be found in all civilizations. Not just the Mormon books but in the
Baghavagad Gita in India, the Epic of Gilgamish, and others - there is a
tremendous lot of consonance. This is certainly a fascinating discussion,
and whatever I find of interest in Hancock I will share.

----- Original Message -----
From: Alex Condori <lista2@iname.com>
To: <aymaralist@aymara.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 3:53 PM
Subject: [aymara] Prophetic Aymaras

> kamisasktasa? Don (kamisasipktasa? list jilatanaka)
> > We believe, as outlined in the Book of Mormon that the Aymaras are
> > descendants of ancient prophets that sailed from the biblical lands to
> the
> > Americas.
> Are we talking of the Aymaras only? or the native peoples of the Americas
> as a whole?
> > ( I read in an earlier message that
> > someone cited Aymara as the closest thing to the Adamic langrage?
> Yes, I heard it also. However, such statement makes no sense
> because we don't know what the adamic language was, so even less
> we can measure the degree of closeness of Aymara to an
> unknown language. By the way, there is no reason to think
> that the "Adamaic" could be considered a semitic language.
> > Anyway the families sailed and landed on the west
> > coast of South America
> How can be that area so accurately located? I
> don't think the Book of Mormon says "they
> landed on the west coast of South America".
> What is the method mormons used to reach to
> such conclusion from the text?
> > I believe in the area of Northern Chile ( will have
> > to look that up to be sure)
> Please, look it up.
> > I find it interesting to note that the
> > scriptures make great pains to reference that both groups took written
> > records with them
> Both groups?? were there more than one group?
> > to 1. preserve Gods commandments, 2. keep their
> > genealogies and 3. to preserve their LANGUAGES. I find that last one
> > interesting in light of the ongoing discussion of the perfect language
> > question here in this discussion.
> But if they came from Jerusalem, they should
> have talked Hebrew (or Aramaic, depending on what
> period we are talking about)
> > We believe tat following the crucifixion of
> > Christ, Christ indeed himself came to the Americas and taught them and
> > established his law on that content, organized 12 Apostles etc. The
> people
> > here experienced the three days of darkness, devastation, earthquakes
> etc.
> > at the time of the crucifixion. When we were translating the book of
> > Mormon into Aymara we found as we searched for proper wording and
> > translations of these passages, the Oldest Ayamaristas could relate
> > curious stories or legends with great detail and resemblance to those in
> > the Book of Mormon that had been passed down verbally generation to
> > generation.
> Well, the andean peoples have always had traditions
> about great cataclisms and they relate stories
> of a huge flood where the diferent nations originated.
> Those cataclisms are violent transitions between
> cosmic ages, and are called Pachakuti in Quechua.
> In fact, the arriving of the europeans was considered
> one of these Pachakuti.
> I can supposse that the ancient tradiction of
> Wiraxucha has been found very valuable to Mormons.
> > The book ( gold engraven
> > plates ) is buried in a hillside before the last great battle
> last? who for? There where native americans and
> also battles and wars when europeans arrived.
> > While serving my mission, it was commonly stated that Aymara is the
> closest
> > existing language to that which Lehi and Nephi spoke.
> I keep on thinking they should have talked Hebrew :-)
> > Is this at least close to what you were asking? if not let me know and
> > will try to stay on topic.
> Yes, it's a general view, although I think it could
> be applied to any of the native peoples. Never
> mind, I don't expect the Book of Mormon to be
> more specific (and I don't expect it to say
> "the aymaras...").
> Thanks, Don
> waliki
> Alex

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