|
Wow where do I begin to respond? Very
interesting indeed. I can an will look up the old testament
references further. I too am totally at awe of the technologies that our
predecessors possessed. I can only stand amazed at how and why these
thing were built and for what exact purpose I know not. It was
obviously serious work and intended to last. I laugh at some that think we
in this day are so mighty and powerful in all ways. Yes we do possess
great technology and the greatest amass of science since the beginning of time
on earth but we still can not find out how these "primitive" and so called by
some uneducated peoples accomplished such great things.
Again in the Book of Mormon, there are some side
references of things such as horses, use of concrete and fine silks and linens
that were used and produced. This was (is ) a source of criticism for the
book as many say cement is a new invention and horses were not here until the
Europeans brought then here. There is no mention of the pyramids, or other
figures such as the Nascar figures in the book. The book is a "readers
digest" version, a compilation of many many records written on metalplates over
the centuries and deals mostly with the teachings of God and how the people
either prospered or fell to decline over time. It does support that they
did have incredible skills and technologies but goes into no specifics of
those.
Aymara embarrassed by the sacrifice thing? In
my opinion not really, In my time with them this did not seem to weigh on
their minds I think it is more a loss of technology and information over
centuries. That is why the nephites were so intent on taking their
histories, plates of commandments and knowledge with them to this land so they
would not forget those technologies if you will. You know how easy it is
to forget and loose information in isolation.
if you are curious here are a few B of M names of
people.
Ammon, Agosh, Alma, Abinadi, Amoron Amulon Cezoram,
Corom, Enos, Ether, Ezrom, Gadianton, Gideon, Helaman, Horeb, Jared, Kish,
Lehi, Mahori Moriancumer, Mulek, Noah, Nephi, Seezoram, Sariah, Shez, Ziff and
many many more
I would like it if you would indeed pass on any
interesting info from you book on order.
thanks
don
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 1:48
PM
Subject: Re: [aymara] Prophetic Aymaras
travel of Lehi to America and their language.
Hi Don! This is Laura Jones
responding. I mentioned the Hancock book - one thing I found
very interesting about it is that the ancient peoples were very focussed on
the heavens, we are taught these days that astrology is superstitious, but
they lived by it, I guess everyone knows that the Sphinx and Egyptian pyramids
are a certain orientation in line with heavenly constellations.
This is also true of the Latin American structures and Nascar figures, and in
fact all around the world, now that we have computers to do these very
complicated calculations the ancient peoples did on their own some scholars
have worked to discern the relevance of these things. I really didn't
need the details when I read the book, but for instance the holy sites on
Easter Island, the Egyptian pyramids and Angor Wat in Cambodia, and I think
some other place now under water, these are all calculated a certain number of
degrees around the earth, certain numbers with special significance are used,
it's tremendously interesting, although I have misgivings about Hancock who
opines that the ancient peoples were looking for Gnosticism - or trying to
pass it on to us, I forget exactly. This doesn't cut it for me, they
worshipped God, not some philosophy, and not one of the best. However,
on the west coast of South America there is a huge figure carved in the
limestone palisade that we call the "candelabra" although it is not that but a
representation of a heavenly constellation which would have appeared in the
heavens right over the carved figure at a certain significant date in the
people's tradition. And it can't be seen from just any angle, but only
from a certain approach by sea. AmazonDotCom says the book is on its
way, so when it gets here I will copy out what might be relevant and send it
to you and you can see if it fits with your information. Maybe, Aymaras,
someone in your area has taken an interest in these Andean buildings and
figures, etc. They really are quite remarkable, and I think very
important because these ancient peoples have something to say to us today,
especially because we have become so secularized. Here is a note from
the Jerusalem Bible that might be related, it goes with a mention of these
ancient people who are mentioned in a number of places in the Bible as being
giants or godlike, Dt. 2:10. I'll let you look it up in your own Bibles
rather than copy it out. Here is the Jerusalem Bible note: "The Anakim,
like the Emim, Rephaim, Zamzumin and Zusim, were the remnants of the
prehistoric inhabitants of Palestine and Transjordania, cf. vv 20f and Gen
14:5. They were associated with the legendary Nephilim, Nb 13:33 and Gn
6:4, and were supposed to have built the megalithic monuments, cf. Dt
3:11." Maybe if some of those people came to America, they might have
spoken another language than Hebrew, I mean the names, although given the
Hebrew plural endings, do not sound essentially Hebrew to me. Especially
Zamzumin and Zusim, I note that Aymara does have a very distinctive sound to
it, I mean like Titicaca, anyone would know that's not from a European
language, for instance. So what about these names, do they fit with
anything else? I mean if they came and landed and built the
remarkable buildings, etc, maybe they would want to carve that
"candelabra" at the place where the constellation was on a certain date to
commemorate when they made landfall.
Can anyone make any response about those stone
walls with those huge perfectly chiseled and fit stones? And no one knows how
they got them so high when (so we are told) they did not have wheels?
The buildings are important because they were used for religious
purposes. Maybe Aymara are a little embarrassed about that because they
practiced human sacrifice, but for them it was not murder, I mean
in Homer's Iliad we have a human sacrifice, Abraham apparently did not
think it was inherently inadmissible, it was for them a way of returning to
God his most precious gifts. If we don't want to do it that way today,
no problem, but we should recognize that for those people it was an act of
reverence and gratitude, and no doubt they thought the people sacrificed would
be very grateful to go to God - actually, since they were selected for their
perfection, the perception probably was that they would not have to go through
all the tests, etc., "crossing the River Styx" as the Greeks called it, I
don't know the name of the river the Egyptians depict in the scenes from their
Book of the Dead, but probably when they chose someone to be sacrificed this
was a very great honor and God would readily receive this person. This
seems to be the case with that mummy found in the Andes, I forget the name,
but she was especially beautiful and perfect. Also those Nascar figures
- they seem to have used the hot air balloons the archaeologists finally
noticed depicted on their pottery to view them, undoubtedly this was some kind
of religious ritual - not like the way we used hot air balloons to cross the
English Channel or some such! By the way, one possibility about the
stones could have to do with the height of the Andes. The Himalayas go
down into the ground several times as deep as the are high above it which
results in this mass deflecting a vertical compass from the true. The
Tibetans are able to make use of their remarkable environment - well, this
Swedish visitor, or maybe Danish I forget, became very good friends with the
monks and so they invited him one day to see how they moved a gigantic bolder
that it took 6 yak to haul into place, up to a building they were building at
the top of a vertical mountainside. When the yak got it on the platform
of whatever the monks assembled with their instruments and all and when they
sang and played their instruments, the huge bolder rose into place. I
don't think there is any reason to doubt this, because of the fact that the
tremendous mass of the Himalayas can obstruct gravity. The Andes are the
next tallest mountains in the world so no doubt this is true of them
also. All these things bespeak a superior cultural development, whether
they were achievements of people already here, or "newcomers" from the land of
Jerusalem!
I found Don's latest on critics of the book of
Mormon very interesting. I mean, Edgar Cayce saw things that happened at other
times and places, I don't see why Joseph Smith couldn't. God is
certainly at liberty to raise up prophets when and where he wants to, when he
has something to say to the people. And I don't think he is going to be
exactly all that happy with them if they refuse to listen.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 3:18
PM
Subject: Re: [aymara] Prophetic Aymaras
travel of Lehi to America and their language.
>
> > Anyway the families sailed
and landed on the west
> > coast of South America
>
> How can be that area so accurately located? I
> don't think
the Book of Mormon says "they
> landed on the west coast of South
America".
> What is the method Mormons used to reach to
> such
conclusion from the text?
>
> > I believe in the area of
Northern Chile ( will have
> > to look that up to be
sure)
>
> Please, look it up.
>
"Discourses of the Prophet Joseph
Smith"
deseret book, Salt Lake City UT 1977 ISBN
0-87747-067-7 Page 269
Lehi's Travels-Revelation to Joseph the
Seer
" The course that Lehi and his company traveled
from Jerusalem to the place of their destination: They traveled nearly
a south, southwest direction until they came to the nineteenth degree of
north latitude; then, nearly east to the Sea of Arabia, then sailed in a
southeast direction, and landed on the continent of South America, in Chile,
thirty degrees south latitude ( Richards and Little, op.cit.,
p272)"
(answers my personal question of how he
knew, was by revelation not by reading it on some other gold plate yet
un translated as I had mused earlier.)
a personal note. this ONLY holds water
assuming one believes Joseph was a prophet, of course there is no
"scientific" or tangible fact of this I am aware of at this date. I
don know there is lots of conjecture and circumstantial evidence to the
concept however is several books.
However, in my photo copy of my book
Copacabana de los Incas
Plaza hermanos, Editores Papeleria y
Liberia . Calle, Ayacucho, 12 y 14
page 12 under the heading "Idea del
Libro"
states " 1st. Las naciones y gentes
sudamericnas, desciened de los Afros venidos antes de Jesucristo nuestro
Salvador, desde el Egipto, de heliopolis y de Ramses"\
2nd. En vida de los Aposloles de Christo de ha
predicado su Santo Evangelio en todos y en cada uno de los pueblos de toda
esta America;
3rd. Han existido entre las Provincias
alto-Peruanas, pueblos y ciudades con sus monumentos clasicos, hasta el ano
666 en que tuvo lugar la erupcion simultanea de varios volcanes, en sete
Nuevo-Mundo, causando grandes ruinas, como se ven desde el Brasil hasta el
Canada e Illinois;
4th. Los Incas inciaron su dinsatia en
los mismos anos gue los Mexicanos los Beraugas, los Panataguas y los
Chinitaguas Estados descubiertos por el mismo Cristobal Colon, en su 2nd
Viaje al Nuevo- Continente el ano 1493 y despues reconocidos y colonizados
por el Vascuense Nuez de Balboa, auien descubrio tambien el Grande Oceano el
dis 26 de Setiemb. de 1513.
5th los intis o Incas; es decir Hijos del Sol y
principes Sacerdotes y legisadores, fureon oriundos del collao y fundadores
de la Monarquia Peruana, el ano 888 de la Era-cristiana.
> > genealogies and 3. to preserve their
LANGUAGES. I find that last one
> > interesting in light of
the ongoing discussion of the perfect language
> > question here in
this discussion.
>
> But if they came from Jerusalem, they
should
> have talked Hebrew (or Aramaic, depending on what
>
period we are talking about)
>
> > > I keep on thinking
they should have talked Hebrew :-)
>
Book of Mormon page 1 chapter 1 of the first
book of Nephi verse 2 " Yea, I make a record in the language of my
father, which consists of the learning of the jews and the language of the
Egyptians"
1st nephi chapeter 5 verse 14 "and it
came to pass that my father Lehi, also found upon the plates of brass a
genealogy of his fathers; wherefore he knew that he was a descendant of
joseph who was the son of jacob, who was sold into egypt."
The brass plates are some of the plates I
referenced in a discussion earlier to get the genealogy, commandments and
language. They are the Brass plates that king Laben possessed.
Nephi and his brothers returned to the city of their origin to retrieve the
plates after they had first fled to the wilderness.
I have a recollection that either somewhere in
the Book of Mormon or some other statement of Joseph Smith possibly, there
is a statement that the engravings on the plates are a "reformed
Egyptian" I will see if I can find these references for
you also...
to those looking for tangible hard evidence this is just hearsay
but it just fits so fully with what we believe I can not ignore it.
I have for very short bursts of time attempted to read ( translate HA!
not with my linguistics ability!) the book Copabana De los
Incas. It is written with vocabulary and old Spanish I do not
understand. It is some 550 pages long but I would love to know what it
says in detail.
don
again please excuse my typos and ramblings and inability to place
tildas and accent marks in correct locations. It should stillmake the
point without them I hope.
|